destruction?
naah, they know that this is really never going to happen to them.. the obscure threat of "displeasing jehovah"?
no, he isn't really real to them.. social disapproval?
joelbear hits the proverbial nail right on the head in identifying "social disapproval" as what JWs fear the most.
And no wonder - the WTS procedure makes this inevitable:
- Nobody is supposed to have friends outside of the congregation.
- So, cut someone off from the congregation (either formally or otherwise) and they are left with nowhere.
Jack.
mulan's thread, and simon's post thereto, got me to thinking about this, especially in terms of what i might be today, minus the influence of the wts.. by nature, i was always an introvert.
early on (age 10 or so), i immersed myself in mathematics, physics, chemistry...the "pure" sciences, devoid of "worldly" meaning...just the plain and simple facts, thank you ma'am.
i'd stay in my room and study stuff until my mom had to literally grab me by the ear and say "craig, go outside and blow off the stink!.
I once though that I was by nature an introvert.
However, I have since come to realise that I was by nature in fact quite an extrovert:
- Upbringing beat that out of me, and environment added to the change-around.
This happened before I ever became a JW, but that certainly didn't help.
Jack.
o.k so i am living the "double life" i suppose.
but its funny how sometimes i still catch myself doing or saying things that only a "really spiritual" preason would.
like the other day when i saw a cute tank top on sale but it said "libra" on it.
My first reaction to this question was 'I bloody-well hope not!"
Then Justin's reference to "the real me" rang a bell:
- because recently, I have spent a lot of time just trying to discover (maybe more like "re-discover") just what the "real me" is.
- which is not exactly an enviable situation to be in when you are in your fifties!
- In trying to re-discover what the "real me" is, I have tried to reflect back to what I was before the WTS madness took hold (being 34 years ago, though, this is difficult).
So maybe a residual Witness Mentality is still there - in ways we may not be aware of - and mostly would not like if we did.
My thoughts anyway,
Jack.
i actually have several reasons why i don't resent my witness upbringing, but it sure came in handy today.. last year i posted about helping 50 kids run in the seattle kids marathon at my daughter's school.
the event was a blast and while it was a ton of work, seeing the joy on the kids' faces when they crossed the finish line made it all worth it.. this morning i spoke to the entire student body at my daughter's school at their monthly spirit assembly.
if i hadn't been raised a witness, giving talks from the time i was five, i never would have attempted such a thing.
Sixofnine - I beg to differ with you there!
Nothing that I did before becoming a JW - nor anything that I have done since leaving them - have done anything for my public speaking skills.
These days, I do use the skills I learned on the Ministry School (flawed as these may or may not be).
Once again, though - I stress that this is the ONLY benefit that I took away from the WTS Madness.
- Also, I would repeat: - it was a frightfully expensive course in public speaking!
Jack.
how stupid is this .... the police execute an innocent man going about his lawful business ... no charges.
someone exposes the information showing the police lied and covered up facts about the killing ... arrest her !!.
what a pathetic excuse for a justice system we have.. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4280238.stm.
Hillbilly brings out an interesting point regarding the police and the carrying of firearms:
-In the USA, where all police officers carry guns, 90% of them will never ever have to even draw the weapon from its holster.
- In New Zealand (and I suspect in the UK as well), where police do not as a matter of routine carry guns; most will at some time in their career have to use one.
I can't speak for the UK, but the skills of the NZ cops with guns is close to abysmal (that from a relative, who used to be a firearms instructor at the Police Training Academy).
Most police having to at some point in their career use a firearm, yet most having little or no skills in their use - sounds like a certainty that screw-ups will occur!
Jack.
i actually have several reasons why i don't resent my witness upbringing, but it sure came in handy today.. last year i posted about helping 50 kids run in the seattle kids marathon at my daughter's school.
the event was a blast and while it was a ton of work, seeing the joy on the kids' faces when they crossed the finish line made it all worth it.. this morning i spoke to the entire student body at my daughter's school at their monthly spirit assembly.
if i hadn't been raised a witness, giving talks from the time i was five, i never would have attempted such a thing.
I was not raised as a JW.
However, I, too agree that the only benefit that I gained from having once been a JW was learning public speaking:
- I am naturally a shy person. It was the Ministry School that enabled me to overcome this shyness when speaking to a group.
(not at the doors, though - I always was, and still am, a bloody hopeless salesman!)
Still, it would be fair to say that this was a terribly expensive course in Public Speaking.
it's not often talked about but in my experience a lot of witnesses have sex (or something like it) during their courtship.
and most of them never go to the elders about it.
recent case in point: my dear friend got married this past summer.
I must have known only straight-laced (boring?) types or something - because I had never heard of it until reading some of the posts on this board.
In my own case, the first time was not until the morning after the wedding (I readily volunteer though, that it was hard holding out for that long!)
Still, after reading the comments of many on this board (about this and a lot of other matters), I would no longer be surprised by anything.
Jack.
an old jw woman just called me for my sisters phone number.
in the usual chit chat she asked how the meeting were etc.
i said i dont go and that i dont believe it anymore.
According to the likes of this 80 year old lady, if the WTS hasn't got control of your mind, then Satan automatically has - like these are the only two alternatives!
Jack.
All the time!
In fact, of all the benefits that have resulted from giving the JWs the heave-ho, the one I like the most is no longer having to tolerate all the strange people (both at the doors, and at the hall!)
I would have to admit, though, that in the first congregation I was with, the major employer in the district was a huge psychiatric hospital - that could have had something to do with it!
this is a very important observation, that the watchtower has not tried to explain in print why 607 bce is the year for the destruction of jerusalem for the last 17 years!!!.
all that the watchtower has done over most of the last two decades is to repeat over and over the year "607bce" in its publications as if it is an unquestioned fact!.
the last time an explaination for the year was attempted by the watchtower was in 1988 when the "insight" volumes were published, but since then, no explaination for the validity of the year has appeared in print.. this must mean something, but what?
In a way, 607/ 537 B.C. is like the New World Translation's rendering of John 1:1 - i.e. no matter how controversial (or utterly ridiculous!) the idea; you can usually find somebody to agree with you:
- even perhaps someone with pretentions to scholarship.
HOWEVER ....... it is a long way from finding some scholar who will agree with your controversial theory, to being able to state with justification that " Secular and Bible Chronology agree on this (cardinal) date, as the WTS does about 607/ 537 B.C.
In the book "Crisis of Concsience", Raymond Franz stated that he, when preparing the WTS "Aid to Bible Understanding", had to go out of his way to stretch the facts to "support" the claim that both Biblical (read WTS) and Secular history agreeing to particularly the date 537 B.C.
That is WTS "Scholarship" at its finest - come up with an idea; then twist the facts to "support" it.
I was an avid reader of the results of WTS pseudo-scholarship for over 30 years, beginning during my formative years. I now understand why I have been so F###ed up for much of my life!
Jack.
